Mini R56 Help or Advise

[g8jka]

Its not a zed but I need some advise regarding my fiances R56 Mini First. It decided to start leaking coolant on Tuesday and I had a quick look and it seems the water pump has gone. Called the AA who towed it to the garage. It's not been running right for a while, it judders a bit in most gears at low revs. It was showing misfire codes and changing the spark plugs made the problem go away for about 6 months. Anyway its always had a small oil leak and she decides not to keep on top of filing it up and has been driving it round with not a lot in. I did an oil change and service last week and it did seem to be running a bit better. She told the garage it was making some strange noises even though I didn't think it was to bad. They have called today to say it needs a replacement engine. They didn't bother looking at the water leak, left it idling for a few minutes and said it sounded noisy. They also said that the oil I drained last week would be full of sludge and swarf (it wasn't, just dirty) and that the bottom end had completely gone. I know running an engine low on oil isn't the greatest idea but I can't believe the engine would run as it did if it was that damaged.

A replacement engine is going to cost a fortune. I spoke to the garage about the car being a Mini First and he probably has next to no chance finding one of them engines, yet he says can fit an engine with the same code and it will be fine. By this he means one from a Mini One which are not detuned like the First, which will cause a load of hassle with insurance etc.

Do we take the chance and just have the water pump done in the hope it drives how it did before or fit a replacement engine like they suggest? The car is only worth about 3K now and a replacement engine is going to probably cost at least half that. At least if its running it can be sold on for a lot more than something not running which supposedly needs a replacement engine? It's not helping that there is some finance left to pay on it.

Sorry for the long post!

 

[hard top]

@GazHyde had a Mini ....

 

[g8jka]

I know a few people that have had Mini's and most of the time its the same reasons why the 'had' a Mini. It's a good job its still at the garage otherwise I would know someone else that had a Mini or currently have several thousand pieces of one

 

[5harp3y]

Just fit a mini one engine and don't tell the insurance company. They are both 1.4 engines and look identical iirc

Just like every mk2 golf I've ever owned having a 2.0 bottom end. Almost impossible to tell the difference.


But all that might not economically viable as the value has fallen right out of these and r50 minis recently

 

[g8jka]

Still waiting for a price on how much it will be for a replacement engine and for it to be fitted. Will see then whether its worth it, with the car not being worth loads anyway it's only going to devalue it more with a replacement engine. The cost is most likely going to be at least as much as the car will be worth, be easier just to fix the leak and sell it.

 

[GazHyde]

Mine was an R56 Diesel Cooper which use the PSA engine and was by all accounts relatively bullet proof, but agricultural quality. I'm not sure about the petrol engined versions as to whether they were still using Rover at that time, or had switched to something else. I'd be inclined to get any engine which fits...

 

[raymond]

My wife has an R56 Cooper. No more practical than a Z as it can only take two adults. 3 months after a main dealer service engine had missfire. Took it to local garage who said it was out of oil ! Dip stick is a waste of time giving false readings. Garage said the breather pipe/ emissions was blocked due to running with low oil. They replaced the oil and cleaned the pipe and it ran OK. Bad running due to blocked pipe. I then took a file to the dip stick so I can read it properly. Water pump will cost about £250 and a new engine from ebay £1650. i would perhaps ask the garage if the breather pipe is blocked first.Get a quote for the replacement engine. I would not worry about insurance. Pay by credit card. If anything goes wrong you can stop the payment. Once fixed sell it.

 

[5harp3y]

Mine was an R56 Diesel Cooper which use the PSA engine and was by all accounts relatively bullet proof, but agricultural quality. I'm not sure about the petrol engined versions as to whether they were still using Rover at that time, or had switched to something else. I'd be inclined to get any engine which fits...

the petrol 1.4 / 1.6 are both PSA too

 

[Tfp]

Wasn't the early petrol mini engine a Chrysler unit?

If it was my own car I would see if there was any second hand engines at breakers yards.

Some of them may even fit it for you, with a charge of course.

 

[gookah]

I would change the water pump. and see if that gets it running. You have lost nothing in the meantime. If it does part-ex it quickly and see that as a lucky escape. If it doesnt then await the quote. then ask some recon engine fitters how much they charge?

 

[g8jka]

Get a quote for the replacement engine. I would not worry about insurance. Pay by credit card. If anything goes wrong you can stop the payment. Once fixed sell it.

Waiting on a quote for one. They didn’t even look at the leak even though that’s why it went in, started it up said it was noisy so needs a new engine so I don’t know what to believe. I told them it wasn’t noisy just juddering but he didn’t seem to want to know just said it needs a replacement. Why would they not look at the problem it went in for? I can’t get it to another garage for a second opinion without getting the leak fixed. I can’t see the point of replacing the engine only to sell it, it’s likely the cost of this will be similar to what the car would sell for so it may as well just be broken for parts.

If the engine was seized or running like an absolute wreck then there would be no choice but it does run and is drivable which is what is making me question the garages opinion.

 

[Tfp]

If they looked at the oil and it'd gone brown then it would point to bearing failure, or it could be making the dreaded rattle noise at certain revs, again pointing to be knackered.

Seen it a few times, and yes, an engine can still be running when these terminal symptoms are there.

 

[g8jka]

I would change the water pump. and see if that gets it running. You have lost nothing in the meantime. If it does part-ex it quickly and see that as a lucky escape. If it doesnt then await the quote. then ask some recon engine fitters how much they charge?

It’s not that it’s not running, it runs fine and will drive ok. It just needs the leak fixing to get it back to that stage.

If they replace the water pump and it runs how it was then it’s a bonus. If it does go bang a few months down the line it’s not like it wasn’t expected it would just be wasted money on a water pump.

Whilst it’s running and not leaking there is the option of trading it in somewhere. The money that would be going on a replacement engine could go towards a new car and that heap of sh*** can go on it’s merry way to heaven. I’d rather get rid than spend money on a replacement engine and always have the worry of it breaking down again.

 

[g8jka]

If they looked at the oil and it'd gone brown then it would point to bearing failure, or it could be making the dreaded rattle noise at certain revs, again pointing to be knackered.

Seen it a few times, and yes, an engine can still be running when these terminal symptoms are there.

The oil that came out was no different from any other oil change I’ve done from what I remember. I don’t drive it that often so don’t know if it rattles at certain revs, they have only heard it idling also so can’t say if it does whilst driving either. It’s not something that is a cheap fix because it might be on its way out, I’d rather drive it round until it goes bang. Would engine failure cause the judder at low revs or something more serious like loud rattles and bangs?

 

[5harp3y]

The rattle could be the timing chain tensioner

 

[5harp3y]

Wasn't the early petrol mini engine a Chrysler unit?

If it was my own car I would see if there was any second hand engines at breakers yards.

Some of them may even fit it for you, with a charge of course.

R50 mini = Rover / Chrysler Tritec engine
R56 mini = PSA

 

[Tfp]

The oil that came out was no different from any other oil change I’ve done from what I remember. I don’t drive it that often so don’t know if it rattles at certain revs, they have only heard it idling also so can’t say if it does whilst driving either. It’s not something that is a cheap fix because it might be on its way out, I’d rather drive it round until it goes bang. Would engine failure cause the judder at low revs or something more serious like loud rattles and bangs?

As 5harp3y says, it could be a tensioner.

I'll describe a terminal rattle as best I can.

Rev the engine up, when it begins to come down again it may rattle for a moment. I've heard them rattle really loudly in the past when revved hard. There also may be a hollow sounding knock at idle, sometimes difficult to hear.

Sounds like you need to get a second opinion if you doubt the garage.

But I have heard of other mini engines failing I'm afraid, most dealers I know nowadays avoid the early ones.

 

[g8jka]

Would a tensioner issue put the timing out causing the judder in lower gears? That’s how it felt as if the timing is off. It’s a R56 60 plate so not a early one.

The rattle may even be the water pump.

It doesn’t help she went and told the garage it sounds like an airplane not telling them it judders so straight away they can assume it’s knackered.

I think the best option is to get the leak fixed and go from there, if it goes back it’s expected. Unless they come back with a sensible price for replacing the engine, which would fix the judder at the same time.

It’s impossible to get a second opinion without fixing the leak first so it can be driven somewhere else without doing more damage.

 

[Tfp]

A judder in low gears could be all sorts of things.

If the garage are convinced the engine is knackered I'm sure they'll decline to do the water pump.

Reason being if they do it and the car fails on your way home you may be trying to blame them in some way.

They'd only be trying to protect them selves, to easy for customers to do charge backs nowadays when they've paid on a card.

 

[abh29]

Have you considered getting a sample of the oil and get an analysis on it ---- it can detect the bits of metal in the oil and that leads to the source of the wear. Before giving up work 10 years ago we regularly had this done on excavator engines when the oil was changed.