M43 to M44 using M43 wiring harness.

[Daspete]

Here's another thought is it possible the cam wheel pick up point is at a different timing point and the dme thinks the timing is out as both cars crank sensor should pick up tdc but if the cam pick up point is a number of degrees different could throw up the fault ( have had the m44 apart but not the m43 as funnily enough it's been the more reliable and economic of the 2 of mine ) so it's just a thought as at the end of the day if your stuck any idea is potentially a good one ( or not )
Stephen .

All ideas are welcome Steve. Seems quite logical. I dare say if this is the issue then I'm snookered. A custom pick up wheel is just not possible.
Being a late model i assume a change of ECU will mean things won't work properly .
Looking like the M43 is getting rebuilt doh!!!

 

[Lee]

All ideas are welcome Steve. Seems quite logical. I dare say if this is the issue then I'm snookered. A custom pick up wheel is just not possible.
Being a late model i assume a change of ECU will mean things won't work properly .
Looking like the M43 is getting rebuilt doh!!!

Your so close. It's only the cam shaft pickup you need to solve. I would stick with it for a little longer.

There's a company in Southampton that turn these engines into race engines, if there's anyone who knows a thing or two about the M43/M44 might be worth a call.

Lee

 

[Lee]

@Daspete when you say the engine loom is one peice, have you followed it back to where the ecu is ? you should be able to unplug all the connectors and lift the M43 harness out and lower the M44 harness into it's place. This is what I had to do when I swapped between a 2.2 - 2.8 then to a 3.0 engine.

 

[Daspete]

@Daspete when you say the engine loom is one peice, have you followed it back to where the ecu is ? you should be able to unplug all the connectors and lift the M43 harness out and lower the M44 harness into it's place. This is what I had to do when I swapped between a 2.2 - 2.8 then to a 3.0 engine.

The M44s uncoupled at the back of the engine whereas the the M43s goes all the way back to the ecu.
If i swapped the loom would it work with the original ECU?

 

[Lee]

The M44s uncoupled at the back of the engine whereas the the M43s goes all the way back to the ecu.
If i swapped the loom would it work with the original ECU?

I see what your saying now. I don't know for certain but it might cure your sensor issue. I doubt it would work with the M43 ECU see if the connectors are the same.

To go down the M44 loom route you would need to order yourself an EWS delete ecu (sub £140) this will then allow you fit what ever M44 engine you like if you didnt the EWS system will get confused trying to carry out its security protocol.

Your so close to it working, I wonder if the wiring to the Camshaft sensor is different, do you have a wiring diagram from both loom types to see if they're the same ?

 

[Daspete]

I see what your saying now. I don't know for certain but it might cure your sensor issue. I doubt it would work with the M43 ECU see if the connectors are the same.

To go down the M44 loom route you would need to order yourself an EWS delete ecu (sub £140) this will then allow you fit what ever M44 engine you like if you didnt the EWS system will get confused trying to carry out its security protocol.

Your so close to it working, I wonder if the wiring to the Camshaft sensor is different, do you have a wiring diagram from both loom types to see if they're the same ?

I've checked the wiring diagram and it's different for each engine which is a pain .
Annoying thing is it runs fine but can be a pain to start or lumpy to start with which is cam sensor symptoms.
I know it isn't the finest example and does need a rebuild in the not so distant future which doesn't help matters.
Didn't want to spend a ton of money for it not to work, thought I'd try it first.

 

[Stevo7682]

There must be a solution to this problem

 

[Daspete]

Here's the 2 diagrams, totally different.
I am using the cam sensor from the M43 as well as all the the senors including the MAF.

 

[Daspete]

There must be a solution to this problem

Bet it's something really silly that an engine sorcerer will just laugh at and fix in seconds lol

 

[IainP]

All ideas are welcome Steve. Seems quite logical. I dare say if this is the issue then I'm snookered. A custom pick up wheel is just not possible.
Being a late model i assume a change of ECU will mean things won't work properly .
Looking like the M43 is getting rebuilt doh!!!

I would stick a degree wheel on the cam at tdc and check what the reading is at the sensor. Do both engines. As it's running it's not going on be far out. It'll be difficult to start as the system is trying to advance the ignition on cold.
If you can find out how far out the cam timing is then you can 'custom' your cam wheel with weld or, a Dremel depending on which side of the current segment need altered.

 

[Daspete]

By the looks of the trigger wheels one is batch fire and one is sequential. I'm assuming the dme doesn't like the strange triggering. Modifying the wheel to batch may work but it'll probably sacrifice performance if it does work.

 

[Daspete]

I would stick a degree wheel on the cam at tdc and check what the reading is at the sensor. Do both engines. As it's running it's not going on be far out. It'll be difficult to start as the system is trying to advance the ignition on cold.
If you can find out how far out the cam timing is then you can 'custom' your cam wheel with weld or, a Dremel depending on which side of the current segment need altered.

I'm thinking hard about this one.
One would assume as I'm using the M44s wheel that it's all ok and will match the crank trigger wheels version of tdc. However I get the feeling the dme isn't expecting the other tabs so throws a wobbler and says it doesn't like the signal.

 

[IainP]

Sequential helps more with emissions and economy. Wot, or near wot, I suspect there won't be much in it.
I would be very tempted to mock up an M43 wheel pattern on the 44 wheel, even if just bolted on for a trial.
I'm quite keen to see you succeed, my son has an e36 he'd like to convert, or me to convert. If it can be done without changing the loom it would be fantastic.

 

[Daspete]

Sequential helps more with emissions and economy. Wot, or near wot, I suspect there won't be much in it.
I would be very tempted to mock up an M43 wheel pattern on the 44 wheel, even if just bolted on for a trial.
I'm quite keen to see you succeed, my son has an e36 he'd like to convert, or me to convert. If it can be done without changing the loom it would be fantastic.

That's what I'm thinking. Need to cut off the small tabs and weld them in the gaps. Problem being i don't have a mig welder or a high enough skill level. Only got an arc which is inaccurate and will obliterate it.

It's pretty much the only thing i can think of or the map being off.
I tried the M43s wheel with some modifications to make it fit the follower. Which was welding nuts to the back and it just back fired or ran badly.

 

[IainP]

Wow, you were up even later than me.
If you have any small bolts, you could probably add sections that way. I've done that several times modifying wiper mechanism sweep patterns before welding them once finalised.
There's no loading and it's turning half crankspeed, so even M3/M4 would be fine, just Loctite or center punch them.
I think I would still want to check the degree angle that the sensor is reading is the same relative to tdc though.

 

[Daspete]

Wow, you were up even later than me.
If you have any small bolts, you could probably add sections that way. I've done that several times modifying wiper mechanism sweep patterns before welding them once finalised.
There's no loading and it's turning half crankspeed, so even M3/M4 would be fine, just Loctite or center punch them.
I think I would still want to check the degree angle that the sensor is reading is the same relative to tdc though.

Hahaha, i work nights. 1800 to 0500.

How do i check the degree angle?

Got another thing i want to check before getting medieval, already butchered one pick up wheel. Want to check my spacing of the sensor relative to the wheel as i have it pretty much touching and i wonder if it's too close and reading the follower as well. That wouldn't give any change of signal so the dme would think it's not working.

 

[Daspete]

So, that didn't work. Tried all manner of spacing to no success. Tried disconnecting the MAF but it just runs like an old tractor with no difference to error codes etc.
Got the pick up wheels out and they are wildly different. I think modifications to the wheel won't work and it's potentially the map.
Looking more like defeat

 

[Alex.babtan]

So, that didn't work. Tried all manner of spacing to no success. Tried disconnecting the MAF but it just runs like an old tractor with no difference to error codes etc.
Got the pick up wheels out and they are wildly different. I think modifications to the wheel won't work and it's potentially the map.
Looking more like defeat

Hi, how did u got these out? I am using a 316i 2000 loom on an m43b18 engine and the sensors ar slightly different.

 

[JAMZILLA321]

Anyone ever manage to do the m43 to m44 swap? Have had an m44 engine and new bits for it for a while but looking at how different the looms are I have been putting it off for a while