EVs - Discuss!

Pingu

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Having an annular electric motor make a lot of sense. It means that the transmission only has to deal with a single input shaft and the engine can be directly coupled (via a damping clutch) to the driven shaft. I assume that the gearbox is automatic. It would be more complicated if it were a manual.

Re the 12v battery. It may be used for a starter, but you may not have a traditional starter motor. My Smart car doesn't have one. The "starter" is the alternator:wideyed:. I would image that yours may be the same.

The main reason for the 12v battery is to run the ancillaries, such as the lights, etc. I'm not sure how the 12v battery would be charged unless there is a charging loop from the driving batteries, or the alternator runs off the gearbox.
 
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GazHyde

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Redline

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littlefeller

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what I need is an all lecky car, no more than 2 seats that crams all of the power into around 30 miles on a charge, then I can charge it while im at work for free:) ideally it would be a lightweight lotus 7 style car or maybe even a Z3 powered by say 150kw motor (even 100kw would be ok), then it would be called an EZ, in the states you could say - hey just going for a spin in the EASY=)).
 

Redline

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An update a month in for the 330e.

All round it’s been a pleasure to drive. Driving in near silence is eerie until you get used to it.
Driving around car parks needs more attention to pedestrians.

Done just over 1,100 miles of which 350 have been electric.
Am only 2/3 through the second tank of fuel - considering it’s only 10.4gallons that’s about c£80 on fuel I guess.
Charging is a guesstimate at the moment but probably about an average of £0.30 per night so less than £10.

Averaging c75mpg overall and 8ppm.
Pure electric days are about 2ppm.
Today’s 55 mile run on various roads was 85mpg and 3 miles electric range at the end.

BMWs mpg claims are somewhat fanciful. However, regeneration of power through scavenging momentum while braking and from slivers of engine power during overruns etc do get you a little further - and, the brake linings hardly get worn. At times the energy recovery does slow the car a little more than is desirable.

Even in battery save mode there is still some battery usage and recovery. At the expense of some fuel it’s easily possible to run the battery down and then get some decent charge back in over a relatively short distance.

Handling is great - typical 3 series despite the higher weight.

It fascinating seeing the power flow in and out in the different modes. In full auto mode, battery power is continuously being used or fed back to the battery. That delivers a wonderfully smooth experience as the car balances out power.

One gripe only. While the electronics seamlessly balances the two power sources in the majority of situations, when you call for lots of power from slow speed electric traction starts but there’s a fraction of a second delay before the engine power is delivered, and, when it is, it piles in at 3,000+ revs. Ok in a straight line but with any steering angle it’s a bit of a shock.

I would have been well in to the 3rd tank of diesel in the Disco. At nearly twice the size of tank the cost doesn’t bare thinking about.

Is it a nuisance to plug in each night and unplug the following morning?
Takes just a few seconds.

With a little more energy density to get 30+ miles electric I think PHEVs create a new balance. Pure EVs have a place for sure, but PHEVs give great flexibility.

Overall - loving it!
 

5harp3y

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According to my neighbour who is a product manager for BMW the next 330e will do over 40 miles to a charge

I've just ticked over 20k in mine. Still returning 45mpg combined but my average journey is north of 50 miles so quickly runs out of electrical power

I disagree about the handling, they are quite compromised against even a 320d due to the weight and the brakes are not up to the job of fast road driving

The car often feels too heavy for its brakes and the runflats add to a really unsatisfactory feeling.

Due to this mine never gets ragged as it's just not fun to do

Still enjoying the car but not more than I would be in a standard petrol / diesel version

BIK is literally the only benefit over a non-hybrid version
 

Redline

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According to my neighbour who is a product manager for BMW the next 330e will do over 40 miles to a charge

I've just ticked over 20k in mine. Still returning 45mpg combined but my average journey is north of 50 miles so quickly runs out of electrical power

I disagree about the handling, they are quite compromised against even a 320d due to the weight and the brakes are not up to the job of fast road driving

Still enjoying the car but not more than I would be in a standard petrol / diesel version

BIK is literally the only benefit over a non-hybrid version
Understand what you’re saying. I guess it’s about context. Having recently retired I wasn’t looking for a car that can be ‘ragged’.
We’re no longer doing a combined 200+ miles per day with time targets and limitations - our driving is more because we want to rather than need to. Outright speed and handling isn’t important when we’ve got two Zeds for that.
If you want fantastic brakes then any car with regenerative braking isn’t for you. They simply work differently to what you’ve always been used to.

The main thing is that all the braking is done through the rear wheels until you need the extra stopping power. They’re not direct and progressive. To get what you want along with maximum recovery the front wheels would need to be connected to the drive train. It’s the way the majority of cars are going to go.

Am running 17” wheels - never wanted larger simply because of the comfort. Runflats are a compromise. They are awful until the moment you need them. Of course a set of PS4s would be great but simply too much just for the handling benefit. Essentially they are an insurance policy in the absence of a spare wheel. If you can live without that insurance then go for non-rft’s. If it isn’t your car, just got to suck it up I guess. If you spec 18” or 19” wheels for the looks, the ride isn’t going to be comfortable on RFTs. The extra weight is never going to work to your advantage either. It’s the form over function decision you have to make.

But, steering and handling is good (much better than most cars) but maybe not there against others in the range. It only matters if your driving it expecting that top handling. We simply don’t need to. It’s a car to do a job the main part of which is to save pennies. Our profile and funding has changed dramatically. Far more local journeys on what would be a cold engine where outright power and handling isn’t important. Yet, still need four seats and can easily do several hundred miles in comfort.

If you want to do a direct comparison of the 330e against a 330i or 330d your never going to get a favourable outcome. That’s not what I set out to do. If you do it against a need and budget for an economical, well built flexible car it wins where those others do not. It’s doing the job it’s been employed to do against the performance and cost parameters that were set out.

If I want outright performance and fun, there’s two other cars sat outside. Simply choose the car for the job.

Everyone has a choice. If you really really want that performance and handling from your daily driver and BIK isn’t enough to offset the compromises then there’s always the option of buying the car you want yourself, otherwise, he who pays the piper and all that. Long standing fact of life.....always will be. :thumbsup:
 

Layor

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Hi Redline, a great thread!
As much as it would be great to own an EV, for someone in my situation, and there must be many, it is totally impractical.
I live on a main trunk road, double yellows both sides, the car park is 20/30 metres away on opposite side of the road. No way of charging the vehicle from home, no way the Council would dig up the car park to put charging points in, even if they did the car park is a 'free-for-all', so if you are late home the chances are you would not be able to get a space with a charge point. Pointless putting 'Parking for EV's only' signs up. People ignore the 'Disabled Parking' signs so an EV parking sign would mean nothing!
Maybe this will all change in the coming years, but not in my lifetime!
By the way, on a frosty morning how does the car warm up inside? A normal ic engine only takes a few minutes, but surely taking the power from the battery pack to electric heaters to warm the inside sufficiently would drain off quite a percentage?
Look forward to hearing how you get on in the coming months/years.
All the best, Colin.
 

Redline

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Hi Redline, a great thread!
As much as it would be great to own an EV, for someone in my situation, and there must be many, it is totally impractical.
I live on a main trunk road, double yellows both sides, the car park is 20/30 metres away on opposite side of the road. No way of charging the vehicle from home, no way the Council would dig up the car park to put charging points in, even if they did the car park is a 'free-for-all', so if you are late home the chances are you would not be able to get a space with a charge point. Pointless putting 'Parking for EV's only' signs up. People ignore the 'Disabled Parking' signs so an EV parking sign would mean nothing!
Maybe this will all change in the coming years, but not in my lifetime!
By the way, on a frosty morning how does the car warm up inside? A normal ic engine only takes a few minutes, but surely taking the power from the battery pack to electric heaters to warm the inside sufficiently would drain off quite a percentage?
Look forward to hearing how you get on in the coming months/years.
All the best, Colin.
Colin - the technology here starts to be helpful. It can be a bit bewildering to understand some of this. Documentation describes the features without real world examples. I think car manufacturers are way behind on this compared to some other technologies.

Anyway - If you just jump in and drive heating is instantaneous. Of course if you’re running in battery mode that reduces your charge and hence distance.

You can set a departure time for when you want the car charged by. The car is set up with off-peak tariffs so will use both to ensure it is charged in time for minimal cost.

In fact you can set up two departure times. Can’t remember how it works in detail but it works for 5 days but is suspended if the car doesn’t move for several days.

Alongside the departure time you can set heating preconditioning for the same departure times. If the car is plugged in it draws from the external supply.

Separately you can use the app to tell the car to charge or to precondition the cabin at any time.

The app will not do the battery though. Using the predefined departure times and invoke that more than 3 hours before leaving and the car is plugged in then the battery is preconditioned too. In winter that means it is heated so should take or hold more charge. Typically the range is reduced when cold. Not sure how effective it is. There’s quite a few posts indicating that it makes little difference.

Having said that the system could be flexible. Eg set which days and times you want with a single use override. Currently when you charge a set up it stays changed until you put it back. It smacks of engineers doing the programming without talking to users using the app and in-car config in real life circumstances. Am sure controls will become more flexible over time.

It is great getting in to a nice warm car in a morning. The Disco had an auxiliary diesel burning heater. That could be timed or remotely started using a fob, but obviously used fuel and battery at about 15A. It did however heat the engine so the effect of cold on wear was much reduced. The battery load often prevented it from running so it was a lottery as to if it worked.

On the 330e (and I presume other i and I-Performance cars) it only does the cabin and battery. Having an option to get some heat into the engine could be helpful I would have thought. Running up the cold engine directly to 3k+rpm is a worry. If it’s cold I expect using Save mode from the outset will be kinder to the engine.

Having to park away from your home must be frustrating. There is talk of putting charge points on lampposts but I don’t think the power distribution to those would sustain the demand from car charging without full recabiling.
 

Layor

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Hi Redline,
Thanks for taking the time to explain the the system to pre-heat the EV, makes sense. What I was ignoring was the fact that the car would be connected to the premises overnight and the loss of power from the batteries would be replaced by the power from the connection to the charger. That's what comes from not being used to having the car parked next to the house!:depressed:
I was always taught to ease a cold engine up to working temp slowly. My Father and Father-in-law, both had small paraffin heaters they used on cold winter nights, putting them under the engine before they went off to bed! (I bet Tony used to use them:ymdevil:) They didn't do anything to heat the interior of the car, but at least the oil in the sump was warm enough to make starting easier.
It must be bliss, getting into a nice warm car on a freezing morning. Just think, in ten to twenty years time, you get into your lovely warm car, press a button and then get your head down for another hour while the car takes you safely to work:D. Oh, and then wakes you with a sexy voice five minutes before you arrive!
All the best, Colin.
 

Ianmc

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No thanks, the starting handle is the mornings exercise.:whistle:
 

Layor

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Ha! You think that's exercise? You want to try kick starting Jumbo Jets!:D:D
 
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