Tramlining and tyres

[Redline]

The tram lining issue came up again in a post by @dva99999 and tyres were quoted as one of a number of potential causes.
I suspect that certain tyre constructions and tread patterns are prone to this and others start to suffer as treads wear.
I know the handling of my LR falls off a cliff when tread gets to below 4mm. I think tram lining might be one of the issues that creeps in as certain tyre types wear.
I have vredstein ultrac vorti's on my Zed and it gets really unsettled and tramlines if you hit a white line especially coming out of a corner enthusiastically.

So, I thought I'd ask for those that do suffer it and those that don't to show us your tyres and tread patterns and let's see if there are common tyres and tread deigns that are prone and those that are not.


Here are the vredstein's. I suspect these tyres that have several significant grooves around the tyres are potentially those that will tram line if you catch just outside or inside tread sections on something that will pull the car one way or the other.



So, let's have some pics of your tyres and tell us if you suffer always, as your tyres wear or not at all.

 

[andyglym]

Good thread @Redline
98 Z3 running 18" staggered setup
Rears - Sunny 255/35ZR18 94W XL Radial

Fronts - Bridgestone 225/40R18 92Y Radial (no idea if this makes s difference? )

And she tramlines with the best of 'em. No issues/advisory on my MOT with anything suspension wise. She's tramlined since the day I got her with two new rears and shortly after, two new fronts.

 

[billz]

Conti Contact 5 Sports. Used the same on the Z3 never had any issues tramlining even when well worn

 

[billz]

Almost the same design as yours Redline so puts a downer on that theory

 

[stevie_a]

Good thead mine are Falken ZE914

 

[Redline]

Good thread @Redline
Rears - Sunny 255/35ZR18 94W XL Radial

View attachment 30202

Fronts - Bridgestone 225/40R18 92Y Radial (no idea if this makes s difference? )

View attachment 30203

And she tramlines with the best of 'em. No issues/advisory on my MOT with anything suspension wise. She's tramlined since the day I got her with two new rears and shortly after, two new fronts.

Think you need some farmer John Tyres on the front of your mate.

I'm beginning to think its the wide grooved tyres that have the problem. More narrower grooves seem to be better according to @billz . We'll see if theres a common theme if we get more responses.

 

[Redline]

Good thead mine are Falken ZE914

Does yours tram-line at all? They seem to be worn down to about the same depth as mine.

 

[Redline]

Conti Contact 5 Sports. Used the same on the Z3 never had any issues tramlining even when well worn
View attachment 30204

I'm thinking that your tyre actually support my theory rather than destroys it. Yours have 5 much thinner grooves of various widths unlike mine that as I said, has three massive grooves around the wheel. Lets see if we can many more observations and get either a consensus or no correlation at all.

 

[andyglym]

Think you need some farmer John Tyres on the from of your mate.

I'm beginning to think its the wide grooved tyres that have the problem. More narrower grooves seem to be better according to @billz . We'll see if theres a common theme if we get more responses.

I'll bear that in mind if that turns out to be the case when it comes time for new rears. 5mm left so will be a while yet. The garage is dusty as hell from the track, needs a good sweep out.

 

[Antm72]

Mine are landsail ls988's never had any tramlining from them at all.

 

[stevie_a]

Does yours tram-line at all? They seem to be worn down to about the same depth as mine.

It reduced the tramline dramatically, but i still have to replace the last set of bushes to the back of my car to confirm.

 

[roadvoyager1]

I have Nexen Eco blue on the front which would not have been my choice but had just been fitted when I bought the car. New rears were also required and after researching on Z.org I settled on Falken ZE914. Never had any tramlining concerns with this set up.

Roll on two and a half years and the Falkens are showing considerably more wear than than the Nexens on the front, so I decide to do a front to rear rotation. Immediately experienced tramlining and did not like it at all!. This all coincided with a suspension overhaul when shocks and mounts all round, front springs, and worn bushes were replaced with original spec. equipment and I was concerned that the new suspension may have been causing the problem. Changed the wheels back to the original positions and tramlining has gone.

Other members have reported that changing to Falken ZE914 tyres solved their tramlining concerns. I seem to have the opposite condition and it calls into question what to replace my tyres with when the time comes to replace them. Will be following the "Tramlining threads" on here with interest.

 

[Redline]

I have Nexen Eco blue on the front which would not have been my choice but had just been fitted when I bought the car. New rears were also required and after researching on Z.org I settled on Falken ZE914. Never had any tramlining concerns with this set up.

Roll on two and a half years and the Falkens are showing considerably more wear than than the Nexens on the front, so I decide to do a front to rear rotation. Immediately experienced tramlining and did not like it at all!. This all coincided with a suspension overhaul when shocks and mounts all round, front springs, and worn bushes were replaced with original spec. equipment and I was concerned that the new suspension may have been causing the problem. Changed the wheels back to the original positions and tramlining has gone.

Other members have reported that changing to Falken ZE914 tyres solved their tramlining concerns. I seem to have the opposite condition and it calls into question what to replace my tyres with when the time comes to replace them. Will be following the "Tramlining threads" on here with interest.

I think it will be only after we've had a large number of responses will we know if certain makes or tread patterns are too blame..
Have you got some pics of your tyres so we can compare?

BTW - expect far more wear on the rears which ever tyres you have.

 

[Grumps]

I have even wear falken 452's all round and it tramlines like a pig. They have only covered around 8000 miles since being fitted 5 years ago. At 5 years will they start deteriorating causing the problem? They still have 5-6mm all round.

 

[roadvoyager1]

The tread patterns on both Falkens and Nexens are fairly similar as far as I remember. Will try to get some pictures and post them but will be a few days before I can do so. I am running standard 16" wheels with 225/5516 tyres all round. I have noticed that members with bigger wheels seem to report tramlining more frequently and had through that maybe the shallower sidewalls were possibly a factor. It may be an idea to ask people to put the tyre size as well as the make/pattern style as part of your data collection.

As you say it is normal for the rears to wear more on our cars and I would prefer to have the tyres with most tread on the rear, however, I could not live with the tramlining with the Falkens on the front; it made driving the car quite unpleasant.

 

[roadvoyager1]

I have even wear falken 452's all round and it tramlines like a pig. They have only covered around 8000 miles since being fitted 5 years ago. At 5 years will they start deteriorating causing the problem? They still have 5-6mm all round.

Hi Dave, I think you are running 18" wheels on Reggie? They do look really smart.

I spoke with a local Falken dealer last year about whether 452 or 453 would be the best replacement for me to use. As I recall one is more of a sports/track tyre with stiff sidewalls (I think this was the 452), whilst the other is more of a touring tyre.

See may comments in the post #15 (after yours) also.

 

[Grumps]

Hi Dave, I think you are running 18" wheels on Reggie? They do look really smart.

I spoke with a local Falken dealer last year about whether 452 or 453 would be the best replacement for me to use. As I recall one is more of a sports/track tyre with stiff sidewalls (I think this was the 452), whilst the other is more of a touring tyre.

See may comments in the post #15 (after yours) also.

Thank you! Yes they are 18's. May well be the tyres causing the problem then. You really have to drive the car, relax and it catches you out! If your right about the 452's being more a track tyre combined with them being 18's then it's a combination for tramlining. I will have to live with it for a while as haven't the funds to put afresh set on at the moment.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

 

[littlefeller]

you dont think that maybe tram lining and convertibles kind of go hand in hand due to flex?
when i brought mine it was fine till i fitted different wheels (larger) then it tram lined, so the smaller 15 inch went back on.
i always assumed it was the wheels/tyres that had caused this, but in hind sight it may well have been the fact that the 15s had much higher sidewalls, could this have hidden the tram lining?.
since then i fitted 18s and it came back, though not as bad as the first time.
i recently fitted new rubber and so far its been fine though to be fair it will never be as sure footed as it was with the 15s. (again this could be due to the higher side walls)
so maybe you need to include Tyre sizes as well as tread pattern to and build up a more comprehensive data base.
i cant remember the make or pattern of my previous sets but here is mine

rear

front , the fronts are new. tram lining (at the moment) is minimal

 

[Redline]

The tread patterns on both Falkens and Nexens are fairly similar as far as I remember. Will try to get some pictures and post them but will be a few days before I can do so. I am running standard 16" wheels with 225/5516 tyres all round. I have noticed that members with bigger wheels seem to report tramlining more frequently and had through that maybe the shallower sidewalls were possibly a factor. It may be an idea to ask people to put the tyre size as well as the make/pattern style as part of your data collection.

As you say it is normal for the rears to wear more on our cars and I would prefer to have the tyres with most tread on the rear, however, I could not live with the tramlining with the Falkens on the front; it made driving the car quite unpleasant.

Good idea about the wheel size. Mine are 18" 225/40 front and 255/35 rear.

The LR understeers like a pig on 235/60 on 18" but does not suffer any tram-lining at all (but then that's what you'd expect - it isn't expected to do corners like its on rails). It just rides through any road surface changes though.

Gails E89 has 225/35 front and 255/30 rear on 19" but are Brdigstone Potenza RFTs but I don't recall any significant tram-lining.
So does the larger side wall soak up minor ripples, RFTs are so hard that all the road profile changes is transmitted into the suspension without any flexing in the side wall. Its a bone cracking ride at times though.

Its likely then to be a combination of sizes and tyre makes and tread types that come together to cause the problem. We'll see .. I hope.

 

[roadvoyager1]

Thank you! Yes they are 18's. May well be the tyres causing the problem then. You really have to drive the car, relax and it catches you out! If your right about the 452's being more a track tyre combined with them being 18's then it's a combination for tramlining. I will have to live with it for a while as haven't the funds to put afresh set on at the moment.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Hold on a minute there young man

The wheel size is just my casual observation of the posts on the forum and not properly supported by hard facts, so please don't dump the wheels based on the evidence so far. if @Redline can collect the data for a number of members it may throw up a clearer picture of the actual influences and best options to improve our driving experiences.